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From: Glenwyss
To: Jan
Subject: Bibby Family
I have been doing the family tree of my maternal Great Grandparents,James and
Annie Smith. They arrived in N.Z. in 1894 with their family and settled in Uruti,
a small farming community in NTH.Taranaki.G.Grandad's Father was Joseph Smith
and he married an Ellen Bibby.
I found all the names of the Bibby family and was surprised to find that her
youngest brother, Edward had emmigrated to N.Z.and lived in Hawkes Bay.
Apparently the Bibby family were well known in Lancashire and there is a book,
now out of print called "The Bibbys of Conder Mill"a lady whose name I came
across on the Ancestry site and who has done a different branch of the Bibby
tree, scanned a photo of the Edward Bibby family and emailed it to me..
I wondered if there were any Bibbys still in N.Z, so I typed in Bibbys of Hawkes
Bay and there it was.
I wonder if Edward Bibby knew he had a nephew in Taranaki?
From: Jan
To: Glenwyss
Subject: Bibby Family
Hi Glenwyss,
Isn't it a small world...?
It made me giggle a little when you said I wonder if there are any Bibbys still
in New Zealand because there are literally hundreds of descendants of Edward
Bibby still living throughout New Zealand, and a few in other parts of the world
too.
I find it very interesting this contact over in Taranaki as I wasn't aware of
it, and later today (after I've finished rushing around the countryside
delivering a few stone sculptures) I will take your email over and show it to
mum who I am sure will find it fascinating too.
Mum has the book "The Bibby's of Conder Mill" and she has even been back to
Lancashire to see where the Bibbys came from. She has done a painting of Conder
and has it hanging on her lounge wall.
And as for the original Edward Bibby in NZ (there have been a few others
since him) his descendents have been written up fairly thoroughly in a family
tree which is sooooooooo big that it has to be put in a book - as the Bibbys
were very prolific.
Anyway its great to catch up with a long lost distant cousin - and I am sure we
will be in touch again to swap information if you want more.... Bibbys are a
much easier topic to research than some I have had from the website as there are
countless Bibby books recording family and farm history.
Take care
Jan
From: Glenwyss
To: Jan
Subject: Bibby Family
Hello Again,
Just checked the emails before off to town to the Hairdresser, and
thrilled to see your prompt reply.
Do you think Uncle and Nephew were unaware of each other being in N.Z.?
Seems odd.
I am pretty sure Grandad Smith, (as mum called him so do we), never left
Taranaki. I don't think money was all that plentiful, they never had a car until
the early '20s, and then only the youngest daughter Ethel drove.Grandad Smith
died in 1928.
They arrived in Dunedin, lost a son to Scarlet Fever, brought on board when they
stopped in Capetown. They were quarantined on an Island in Otago Harbour and
little Wilfred was buried there. They had to discard the feather mattresses!
They travelled to N.P. by train I think - then by Bullock Dray to the wilds of
Uruti.
On our last trip to the U.K, in August, we visited Lancs. and with the help of
an ordnance survey map, found Higherthrushgill Farm where Joe and Ellen farmed
when first married.
Poor Ellen! way up on the moors over miles of narrow unsealed roads,cattle stops
and wild black faced, horned sheep, imagine what it must have been like in 1846
when she first went there.
He was a widower, with a young son Robert.
His first wife died shortly after Robert was born, perhaps having a second child
I am not sure.
They had a further 11 children Their last farm was in Trysul, Staffordshire,
where Ellen died, the death certificate.says exhaustion, not surprising with all
those children.
We took an extra day there, all so interesting, if I had realised, I would have
taken more details to England with me.
We went to Farleton, two of those, so confusing, and I couldn't remember where
the mill was. Maybe next time, although each time we go we find it more trying
with security hassles etc.(old age creeping up.)
If there is any chance of borrowing the Bibby book, I would stand all costs of
getting it here and take every extreme care and return promptly, appreciating
history and such priceless family treasures as I do. If you would rather not - I
understand completely.
I also wonder if you have any photos of the Bibbys which would include GGGranny
Ellen Bibby (1816-1884) I have one I think is her, not named on the back, so
unsure, very frustrating.
This is getting far too long sorry, you will have eye strain.
Thanks again for your response.
Kind Regards Glenwyss
From: Jan
To: Glenwyss
Subject: Bibby Family
Hi Glenwyss,
Mum was very intrigued that there were other Bibby descendants in New Zealand
that we certainly didn't know of - and probably that might mean that Edward too
might not have known he had a nephew in Taranaki - but who knows? as he's
not around to ask.
Anyway Mum got out the "Bibbys of Conder Mill" book and she has found a couple
of pages where your great, great grandmother is briefly mentioned - although it
doesn't say much. It seems that males were much more important than females in
those days that Edward's sisters hardly even get a mention.
Anyway she will photocopy the relevant pages and post them to you if you would
like? So if you send me your address I can get her to forward those pages.
The rest of the book mainly looks at John Bibby and the foundations of the
Methodist church in Lancashire.
I have found a little more information in a book written for a New Zealand Bibby
family reunion back in 1977 with a family tree that traces the Bibbys back to
1608 - and a little about how they traced this information - so I'll get a copy
of that to you too.
Anyway I've attached a photo of Mum's painting of Conder Cottage (The mill
itself is no longer there) which she did when she and dad were chasing family
history back in Lancashire a few years back.
She tells me that she even found where her great grandfather (Edward) carved his
initials into a wall near the cottage... and I think that may be a family trait
leaving graffiti around the place - as at the house where I live I have the
initials carved into our back fence of my Grandad (also an Edward Bibby) which
he did as a boy.( I live in the house where he was born and lived as a boy).
Anyway I hope you enjoy the painting
Jan
From: Glenwyss
To: Jan
Subject: Bibby Family
Hi Jan,
I really appreciate your interest and prompt replies.
I would love the photocopies
We too had a reunion, in 1983, - I wrote it, shudder now when I read it, but at
least it is a sort of record of the Smith descendants, my genealogy and writing
skills are a wee bit better now(I hope).
You may be interested to know the National M.P. Chester Borrows, Kerry to the
family, is also a G.Grandson of James Smith , therefore G.G.Grandson of Ellen
Bibby. His Granny was Dorothy Smith. His Father Jim Borrows was a great pal of
Mums when they were children, lives in Stoke Nelson and is a very talented
artist, although in his 80s now.
No other claims to fame though, one of the Lendrums from the Joe Smith lot had a
brief stint as an All Black I think. Anyway I will send you the wee book, it may
be of some interest. I grew up on the farm next to the original Smith holding,
Granny lived there when I was a child, Grandad bought it from the family. Keith
and I lived there for a while but had to move to town, sadly it burned down,
still haunts me I'm afraid.
Thank you also for the painting,
I have printed it out on photo paper.
You are right about the girls not being as important in those days, I also
wonder if old Joe was not considered to be quite up to scratch, so to speak, all
the other spouses feature in family trees on the internet!
He seemed to be reasonably successful, the 1881 census lists him as being
"farmer of 350 acres", They were in Staffordshire by then.
I will enclose some stamps with the booklet, to cover some of your costs.
Thanks again.
Regards Glenwyss
From: Jan
To: Glenwyss
Subject: Bibby Family
Hi again Glenwyss,
I know I only wrote to you earlier today and I would hate you to think that I
spend all my time in front of the computer because usually I am rushing around
doing other things. But today I decided to have a lazy day to recover from
rushing around madly delivering statues to Hamilton, and to Award ceremonies in
Napier, and also to a lovely country garden north of Napier (all in one week!)
So I looked through the Bibby Family reunion book and took exerts out of
it with the history pieced together about the early Bibbys.
Since you Great Great Grandmother and my Great Great Grandfather were brother
and sister I thought you might find it interesting...
Anyway I typed it out and have attached it to the email as an attachment so that
the family tree etc doesn't get out of line which it may do in a normal email.
If you have any extra information it would be great to fill in any gaps. This
family searching was done some time ago as it was written for our reunion in
1977.
So while you're waiting for the Conder Mill book to arrive via snail mail -
here's a little 'light' reading...
-------
Exerts from
.
The Bibby Family in New Zealand 1850-1977
This is the story of Edward and Mary Bibby and their descendants. It is also the
story of the early pioneers, the people who in the face of great difficulties
laid the foundations for the prosperous life we know today.
Conder Mill where Edward was brought up in England.
Our Early Beginnings
Our familys roots are in England in Over-Wyresdale, the upper part of the
valley of the Wyre, a stream that rises in the Forest of Bowland and crosses
north Lancashire to empty into the Irish Sea at Fleetwood. How the first Bibbys
came to establish themselves there is not known. Probably an enterprising Bibby,
perhaps in search of land, migrated from the southern part of Lancashire, either
by Garstang or Trough of Bowland, early in the seventeenth century. There is a
record at Lancaster Parish Church of the baptism of John Bibby, son of James, on
1st January, 1608.
The earliest record of Bibbys living in Over-Wyresdale is of the marriage at
Lancaster Parish Church of John Bibby I to Annas Slayter, both of Wyresdale,
before the Mayor, on 1st July 1654, during the period of the protectorate of
Oliver Cromwell. Their son John Bibby II, born in 1656, is known to have lived
at Marshaw, some three miles west of Abbeystead, a point where the Wyre, there a
mountain stream, emerges from the trough of Bowland. There are several
farmsteads at Marshaw, all deriving from the seventeenth century though with
later additions, and it was one of these that John Bibby II lived. He married
twice and outlived both of his wives. We know little about him what we do know
is from his will which has been preserved.
Here it is.
In the name of god amen the seventh day of August 1729 I John Bibby of
Marshaw in over Wyresdale In the parish of Lancaster and county of Lancaster
being in perfect memory and remembrance praised bee god Do make and ordain this
my last Will and testament in the manner and form of the following = viz. ffirst
I Bequeath my soule into the hands of Almighty god hoping through the merits
of Jesus Christ my saviour to Receive free pardon and forgiveness of All my sins
and as for my body to bee buryed in Christon burial at the Discreshion of my
execiter hereafter nominated = Item I I give to my son James Bibby the sum
of five shillings as Also my Best Sute of gray cloths that is coat vest and
breeches Item = All the rest of my estate god Almighty hath been pleased to
bless mee with I give to my son John Bibby upon the Condition that hee shall pay
all my Debts Legasees and funeral expencis and makes him sole execiter of this
my Last will and testament Revoking all other wills and testaments In Witness
Wereof I have here unto set my hand and seal the Day and year first above Writen
Signed sealed
And published
In the presence
Of
JOHN BIBBY
William
Jackson
HIS MARK
Thomas Corles
John Townley
It is evident from the handwriting that William Jackson drew the will, probably
on his friends deathbed, for John died before the year was out, and his mark on
the document suggests that he could neither read nor write.
We can infer from the will that John Bibby II was survived by two sons, John III
and James, and that John, the elder son, was the more fortunate.
John Bibby III inherited the farm at Marshaw on the death of his father in 1729.
John Bibby III married Margaret Townley in 1717. He died intestate in 1739 at
the age of about 55, having survived his father by only ten years, leaving a
widow and six children, the youngest of whom was only six years old.
Less is known of his younger brother James Bibby I, though he is described in
the records as a husbandman and he was probably employed by one of the larger
farmers in the lower more fertile part of the valley. He had four children by
his first wife Ellen Kitchen, who died in 1721, and at least ten more by his
second wife Elizabeth Brewer, whom he married in 1722. His signature appears on
administration bond consequent upon his elder brothers death, showing that he
was able to write. The record of death of a James Bibby in 1758 probably relates
to him.
The sons and grandsons of the two brothers John Bibby III and James Bibby I were
sturdy and fertile. Most of them married and raised large families, and by the
beginning of the nineteenth century there were a dozen or more families of
Bibbys, a veritable tribe, living in the parish, all descendants of the two
brothers. The parish records are incomplete and it is impossible to trace all
the branches of the family but it is probable that our branch of the family is
descended from James, the younger brother, rather than John.
However, this is all surmise as it is extremely difficult with very incomplete
records and large families to contend with to trace any ancestry with certainty.
It is known though that our Edward Bibbys Grandfather was a James Bibby of
Ellel but whether this James Bibby was a son of Edward Bibby who died in 1768 is
not known for sure though evidence points that way.
If this Edward Bibby was the son of the James Bibby who died in 1758 we have our
ancestry traced back to John Bibby I who was born in 1608. The family tree would
then be
Edward Bibby 1829 1901
Edward Bibby, born in 1829, was the youngest of three sons in a family of
twelve. His father was a miller who owned Conder Mill in the village of
Quernmore in Lancashire. This mill was situated on a small stream which had been
harnesses for power to drive a mill.
Edward left school at the age of thirteen and was apprenticed to a cabinet maker
for seven years. This indenture still in the hands of a great grandson is
interesting to us today. The terms were :
The apprentices father had to provide his son with all sorts of wearing
apparel both linen and woolen together with meat, drink, washing, lodging,
mending and medical advice, etc., for the term of seven years. The wage
commencing of four shillings weekly and in the seventh year seven shillings.
Family records tell us that shortly after the completion of his apprenticeship
he was best man for a friend who was to leave for New Zealand. This may have
influenced him as he too in 1860 did likewise.
From there there is a long period of which little is known of him. It is said he
came to Napier, and owned two houses which no doubt he built by himself. In all
probability, the sale of these houses gave him the capital to return to England.
His ship was held up at Melbourne as its crew had gone to the goldfields. In the
meantime he obtained employment by assembling chairs at 20/- a day, three times
the normal rates. He eventually got back to England and soon after married Mary
Ann Woodhouse, the daughter of another miller whose families had known one
another for generations.
Once again he set sail for New Zealand, this time in the sailing ship Albion
taking 100 days to reach their destination. We do not know much about the voyage
except that Mary gave birth to a premature son who died mainly from lack of
proper nutrition.
They finally landed at Napier where he had previously bought or built two
houses. It is understood that he had wished to go to Poverty Bay but due to the
unrest amongst the natives he went to Waipawa.
Their first home was a whare somewhere on the north side of Abbotsford road. It
is presumed that their son James was born here. Mary persuaded Edward to start a
store as there was only one other for the district. The young couple must have
had capital as they built a store and a dwelling. This was situated at the
junction of where Hampden Road (now Ruataniwha Street) met the main road on the
bank of the Waipawa river. The site was well chosen as the Maori Pa was just
across the river and Hampden Road served the settlers on the plains. A number of
earliest houses were built on the banks of the river.
The store, a gabled building with a lean-to at the back which served for living
quarters, opened on July 24, 1862 and flourished under the drive of Mary who
became on keen terms with the Maoris. It is said that she was not above selling
her own garments to the natives. Her home was an open house
---------------------------------------------
Here I leave the book and draw on what Ive been told about my great, great
grandparents Ive been told that if anyone should come in and compliment Mary
on a hat, or a collar, or something she was wearing, she was likely to take it
off and sell it to them. She seemed to be a very astute business woman who
sounds like she was the real driving force behind the business
She even started
up one of New Zealands earliest postal marketing systems where people could
write in and ask for clothing and other supplies they needed and these would be
parceled up and sent out to them.
A sticker that was attached to parcels to be delivered to postal customers..
Anyway Edward and Mary went on to have quite a large family of eight children
The eldest being James Woodhouse Bibby my Great Grandfather (who was the
second baby ever to be born in Waipawa)
This photo of Edward and his children this maybe the one youve had sent to
you as its clearly labels all their children.
Unfortunately I do not know of any photos of Edward and his parents or his
siblings
Its almost like his life started for us descendants when he came to
New Zealand.
So there's Edward and Mary (Ann) Bibby and their children
And after that James (my G Greatfather) and his brothers and sisters nearly
all went on to have huge families
James Bibby and Mary (Glover) Bibby and their children
and then the next generation is large on todays standards too
and then the
next
well
as you see the New Zealand Bibbys went on to be a very prolific
family
I could rave on for ages but probably the bit of family history that youre
interested in is the early part ( probably pre-New Zealand) which is the bit we
share
From: Glenwyss
To: Jan
Subject: Bibby Family
Hello Jan,
I have just collected the mail and your copies from the Bibby book, thanks.
So interesting.I will take a few copies off to send to various people who may be
interested and a few for myself as a safeguard, I am inclined to misplace
things, must be my advancing years.
Fancy your niece working for Kerry, that is amazing. I sometimes wonder how
often in life we bump into distant relatives without being any the wiser.
We are related to half of Taranaki through the Laurences (Dad), but I don't
know half of them.
The name William Howson jumped out at me too- the wedding of James Bibby to
Elizabeth Askey in the presence of William Howson.
Joseph Smith who married our Ellen Bibby, was a widower and all very
confusing as his first wife's name was also Ellen, took me ages to work it all
out, anyway she was an Ellen Howson, probably connected somehow
Thanks also for the email with your family info.
I have printed out the sketch of the actual mill and it is on my Bibby page
in my ancestry scrapbook.
Your interest and help has been beyond expectations and very much
appreciated.
Kindest Regards,
Glenwyss.
From: Anne
To: Jan
Subject: Another Bibby branch
My great great grandfather John Bibby, born 1821 Quernmore, Over Wyresdale
was the cousin of Edward Bibby, who emigrated to Waipawa.
John, my great great grandfather was the son of John Bibby born 1777 Ellel,
whose parents were James Bibby and Elizabeth Askew. John married Nancy
King in 1810 at Cockerham and Edward Bibby Snr. and Peggy Bibby were the
witnesses at his wedding. In about 1823 John and Nancy moved to Preston,
Lancashire to work in the cotton mills, but shortly after they moved there, John
died and was taken back to Ellel to be buried in the same graveyard as his
father James and later his brother Edward and Ellen.
My John is not mentioned in the book ' The Bibbys of Conder Mill. Also his
sister Mary born 1775 was not mentioned in the book either.
Are any of my distant relatives still living in Waipawa.
Kind regards,
Anne Burrows (nee Bibby).
From: Jan
To: Anne
Subject: Another Bibby Branch
Hi Anne,
The internet certainly does make the world small and its really exciting when
I have emails from people around the world who are some how linked to me.
You asked whether there were still distant relatives of yours still living in
Waipawa...?
That question sort of made me giggle as around the place there are hundreds of
Bibbys - if not by name then as descendants (like me)
In Waipawa itself - there is of course me -being a great, great
granddaughter of Edward who was one of the early settlers here in Waipawa, and I
live in his eldest son, James' house... and there's my mother (who lives next
door), and her sister Rachel who also lives in town...
But there are countless others who live in the surrounding area of Central
Hawkes Bay like my uncle Ted (another Edward Bibby) who farms out towards the
Mountains and quite a few of his cousins who have neighbouring farms...
But really the Bibby family is very diverse and haven't all stayed in the area
but can be found all over New Zealand, and America, and even in your part of the
world!
It was interesting reading your email and I think your part of the family
fits into the 'Others' category in "The Bibby of Conder Mill" book - as the time
line seems to match. It's great getting some of those blank areas in our family
history linked up again - just like we did not long ago with another Bibby
branch that came to New Zealand too - which none of my Bibby branch I've talked
to about it knew about..
The number of John's, James' and Edward's in our family tree make things very
confusing doesn't it?
There is a little more info about the branch of Bibby descendants that I belong
to on the www.waipawa.com website under
the headings in the Main menu of ... A little history of Waipawa, Positively
Stoneaged, and a few photos of some Bibby descendants dressed up to go to a
150th celebration here in Waipawa in the Pines 150th. Also if you're interested
there are some paintings done by my great grandmother and a few photos on
www.bibbynz.com click on photo gallery on
the left side of screen.
Anyway great to make contact with you.
I'll go over to Mum's shortly and show her your email - I think she'll find it
really interesting finding this new link we didn't know of previously.
Jan
From: Anne
To: Jan
Subject: Another Bibby branch
Dear Jan,
Thank you very much for your reply and the interesting information you have
supplied.
I have also been reading up on the Bibbys of Charleston, West Virginia..
There is a Bibby Street, a Joseph Street and a Margaret Street named after
Joseph Bibby and his wife Margaret.
Something else amazing has happened recently. My husband and I have an
American friend who lives near Boston. We met him in Edinburgh a few years
ago and have corresponded with him ever since, and visited him last year.
I have just been doing some family research for him and found that his ancestor
lived next door to Joseph Bibby's son John H. Bibby, in Charleston on the 1880
Census.
I am attaching two photographs which I took in March this year. You
probably have such photos already. One is of Conder Mill and the other is
the grave stone of Edward and Ellen Bibby at Ellel. I have previously sent
these photos to Gordon Jackson, who is researching the Bibbys for his daughter
Amelia.
Best Wishes and a Happy New Year.
Anne
 
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